Can Kia Sell Expensive Cars in the US? + Bonus Maserati Rant

"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213) 02/04/2014 at 12:11 • Filed to: Kia, Rant, Maserati, Super Bowl

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Earlier today, I read Automatch Tom's post asking if the K900 can compete with the Ghibli ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ) Then, I went on the front page and read Zac Estrada's post about the Maserati ad failing to mention the $67,000 price tag. The comments on the article then said how funny it is that Kia didn't mention the K900 price either. This then proved mine (and most likely many others) thinking: Kia cannot justify a $60,000 car.

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When people hear Kia, expensive isn't the first word that comes to mind. People do not expect a Kia, a car that 10 years ago was associated with being a piece of junk, would be selling $60,000 BMW fighters. Maserati on the hand, is unheard of to many non-gearheads. They figured it would be an expensive vehicle. So, this brings up my question: will people be willing to buy a Kia that costs more than $60,000, yet still costs less than its German rivals?

To put simply, no. Just the other day, I posted my article about my friend who bought the junk BMW from a dealer over my practical Honda recommendation ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ). The reasons she took the Bimmer was simple: she liked the badge. The heritage. To her, BMW sounds much better than Honda. Driving a BMW puts you in a new class. You no longer are that college kid. You are that college kid with your parent's money. Look at Mercedes with the new CLA. It starts at $29,900. A new Honda Accord EX-L (not even a V6) starts at $28,270. That is a very small price difference. Again, ask your friends which sounds nicer; a Mercedes or a Honda? I had a friend whose dad was looking for a new car. He wanted a good looking four door sedan that costs around $32,000. I showed him the Honda first. He liked it but wasn't wowed. Then I showed him the Mercedes. At first, he thought I was taunting him with a $55,000 sedan. When I showed him the starting price, he was shocked and wanted to go look at it. He is currently at the dealer as we speak custom ordering one. When I asked him why he chose the Mercedes, he said he liked the idea of telling his friends he drove a Mercedes.

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Back to the main point here, when people hear Kia, the perception isn't very good. Especially to the people that most likely will be buying it, older retirees who want a comfortable land yacht. To them however, Kia was some cheap import. This was the car that kept them buying American because the foreign cars were no good. Many of these seniors were simply middle aged family oriented people who needed a good way to get around. When you tell them Kia today, they do not think positive. You never hear good stories about them with their Kia.

And if Kia tries to attract the younger people; those people who drive 5 series or E classes (think realtor or dentist), I don't think it'd work. These people will not know much of Kia. They will not know exactly what they sell. They will not know that they are decent cars. These people are the ones who have always driven cars that were above them (see the kids who went to college with mom and dad's wallet). So, this market is also a no-go.

Lastly, we have the car person. The one who knows about the current offerings in this class and by each manufacturer. This, includes people like myself, the ones who look and see that Kia offers a sub $15,000 subcompact. We sit here and wonder how people can then look at Kia and buy this $60,000 luxury sedan. This is the problem. The price gap. It is immense. It encompasses $45,000. That is a lot of money. How can a dealer that just sold a base $15,000 Rio to some kid for a first car then go and sell a $60,000 sedan to a retired couple? I don't think they can. The games played by dealers towards the young and poor are nothing like the games played on seniors. Kia has a great styling element to them. They also have a great low price point. To the younger generation, this is great. But these are not the people who buy these luxury vehicles. These are the people who after this lease is up, they move on to a better brand; not stick with Kia.

I believe that the big thing going for the K900 will be the people who ended up with the Ghibli, or 5 series, or E class, after the warranty is up and the maintenance costs matter. Just ask my grandmother, owner of a 2009 Hyundai Genesis. Hers is fully loaded and cost a lot new. This was the first luxury car by the Hyundai/Kia group. This was the first attempt. She loves how cheap it is to maintain. The Hyundai badge doesn't bother her since the car is cheaper to run. What did she drive before? A Mercedes Benz S500. Why did she stop? The cost to maintain it. The tires needed for the big rims. The expensive software updates. The overpriced oil changes. The insurance. A Hyundai is a lot cheaper. The Genesis can go to Pep Boys and get work done. The Mercedes went to the dealer. The big thing Kia needs is the people who bought the Ghibli to have the warranty expire. They will regret the idea of owning an Italian. The fun will be gone. The constant check engine lights. The little quarks. Each of which will cost hundreds per visit to fix. What Kia should've done is waited three years. Wait for warranties to expire and leases to go up. This will make people run to the lesser brands. Yes they are not as prestigious. But, in the end, your wallet will thank you.

Oh, and by the way, they're real and they're spectacular I can't help but laugh at people complaining about Maserati's ad. It was constantly ranked low because people said that they were bothered that they couldn't afford this car and it was out of the reach of the majority of Super Bowl watchers. However, no one complained about Jaguar throwing in an advertisement for the F-Type, a car that starts at $65,000 or the Kia which costs at least $60,000. Even Chevy, the all American brand, advertised using the High Country edition of the Silverado, a model that costs nearly $50,000. Why not start judging commercials based on the quality, not price. You criticize a brand that is going from selling exotic sports car that are unheard of to the majority of the population to selling midsize luxury sedans. Vehicles that many, including doctors, lawyers, realtors, jewelers, and many others could afford.

If anything, you should give them props. They shocked everyone. Right out of the gate, they come out strong. I had no clue what was coming. I thought it was Chrysler (which in a sense it was). No one expected Maserati to advertise. Google blew up with people searching about this car. Chevrolet, however, got a very small increase in searches after they aired. Maserati did something incredible, they got their name to stick inside the heads of Americans; a claim that other companies cannot make at all.

Textured Soy Protein > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:17

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I didn't like the Maserati ad because they basically had that little girl from Beasts of the Southern Wild talking in some vague voice over, just like she did in the movie.

The Maserati ad was effective only insofar as it brought the name "Maserati" to the attention of hundreds of millions of people who had only a vague idea of what a Maserati is.

But what does this little girl and an iron worker have to do with a Ghibli?

Stupidru > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:18

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No, it's still a Kia. It could be faster than a Veyron and cheaper than a Versa, but I will never buy it

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Textured Soy Protein 02/04/2014 at 12:19

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That is true... I was confused at first since I had no clue how she went with Maserati. Sadly, just like all of these new Fiat group commercials, they are too elaborate and not focused enough on the car.

Brian Silvestro > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:19

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I'd love to buy a second or thirdhand K900 for around $15k, like a Phaeton.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:20

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I think Kia can, they just needed to build up to that. It's classic sales and Kia knows that. They were using that commercial to build value. "You want a car that shows you're savvy, intelligent, and have arrived, but is just a bit out of the ordinary. We have one that does all that and isn't constrained by the heritage of its badge."

That's value, and it's much easier to swallow the price pill once you've established value. Some people might even be pleasantly surprised if they know the positioning and expect it to be priced with the BMW and Mercedes offerings.

I'd say this commercial was the perfect way to introduce the car.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Brian Silvestro 02/04/2014 at 12:21

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Thats what I'm looking foward to as well! My grandma, who drives the Genesis, was looking into trading it in for the Azera... we were both shocked at how badly it depreciated... it was an 09 with under 40,000 miles... they had it around $22,000... they drop like flies

Brian Silvestro > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:23

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That's good news for us enthusiasts. I'd proudly roll around in a K900 knowing how little I paid for it.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/04/2014 at 12:24

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It was indeed a very clever commerical... it just worked so well with it. If they can change the brand snobs, they may have a chance. I just don't know if people who love claiming they drive a Bimmer can then claim they drive a Kia.

It is similarto Hyundai's Genesis problem. They wanted to branch Genesis into its own brand; away from Hyundai since the sales weren't great. If they did that, it may have helped since saying they drive a Genesis sounds a lot better than a Kia... its just the mindset; the past reputation.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Brian Silvestro 02/04/2014 at 12:25

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I'm looking foward to driving my grandma's Genesis when I see her soon... RWD, powerful engine, and quite luxurious... most likely it'll be kinda fun to drive.

Textured Soy Protein > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:27

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As for the Kia, I get the appeal.

I have a BMW even though I have no desire to be associated with a snobby brand. Every car I've had before this has been an Acura or Mazda.

I don't like telling people I have the BMW. I always qualify it with "I'm not actually rich, I got a good lease deal," or "and yes I know that makes me an asshole," or something along those lines.

So if I were in the market for a big comfy luxo sedan, I would seriously consider the Equus and K900 if only because I would get the nice luxo sedan stuff without having to make excuses for it.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:27

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Kia has gotten a lot of attention over the last ~5 years because of their increased quality, engineering, and design. I think the K900 is less about converting people from the traditional German brands, and more about giving people upward mobility past an Optima. Kia is still selling to Kia buyers.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Textured Soy Protein 02/04/2014 at 12:29

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You are one of the few haha... so many love the brand since it makes them sound better than their neighbor, even though they only got a good lease...

I have no problem with it; I'd like it since I can save on repairs and save money that can go towards a project!

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/04/2014 at 12:31

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Its sad, but I find many Kias better looking then the Hyundai counterparts... the Optima is so much nicer than the Sonata in my opinion. To me, Kia is just better

Victorious Secret > Stupidru 02/04/2014 at 12:31

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Now thats just close minded and ignorant thinking.

Victorious Secret > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:33

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KIA can't justify a 67k car to new consumers.

But they can justify a CPO'd K900 for 30k to me. Just like Hyundai can justify a CPO'd Genesis for 30k right now. RWD, V8, reasonable comfort and reliability that the Germans could only dream of these days? Yes please.

Note: once upon a time the Germans did build bank vaults, but not anymore. Not today. Their cars don't know what reliability in the long term even means anymore.

PS9 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:33

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This car doesn't exist to sell. It would be nice if it did, but that's not what it's there for.

This car exists for the same reason the Equus exists; To raise the profile of the brand. A slow seller can be expensive. But word of mouth is an invaluable asset in building momentum, worthy of the investment. You know that effect where moving too far downmarket dilutes the desirability of a Luxury brand? The inverse is true as well, and it works. The Genesis ranks 4th among mid-size luxury sedan sales, behind the CTS, 5 Series, and E class. 4th. If I went back to 1995 and told you the people who made this:

Would make a credible alternative to the Germans in a decade and some change, you would have laughed rightfully. But it still would have happened.

How do you destroy a car brand? Associate it with consistently underwhelming and terrible products. You build a brand up by doing the opposite, and you elevate that brand by elevating it's portfolio. The K900 is to Kia what the GT-R is to Nissan; one awesome high priced, high quality product that subtly suggests positive things about the rest of the rest of the lineup.

Brian Silvestro > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:34

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What kind of engine?

Textured Soy Protein > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:36

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My momma done raised me right! (Even though she's a little crazy.)

My parents were pretty well off when I was a kid. So while we had a nice house, went on fancy vacations, my dad drove a Mercedes and I always had fresh new Nikes at school, my mom was always reminding me that not everybody is as fortunate so you have to try your best to not shove it in their faces.

I still caught shit from my friends for being "rich," in what was generally a pretty rich area anyway. But I would always try to downplay it.

Stupidru > Victorious Secret 02/04/2014 at 12:39

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Yeah, it is. But I'm still never buying a Kia

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 12:43

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Completely agree. In my opinion, the only Hyundai that really holds its own in styling is the Veloster. And that's probably only because it's designed more in line with Kia's language and there's no Kia counterpart.

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 13:01

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I am in a group of friends that are pretty much elitist douchebags in the tablet world with out heavy bias for iPads (we love them to the point where you can have the best tablet in the world and iPads are still better.) I mean there are Android elitist douchebags too but not the point right now. Sorry LOL

I feel that this is the same for the general public. We are generally pretty loyal to our brands which is why my dad and I cheer on every predator-mouth Lexus the same way our family friend seems to be trying to breed Priuses on his drive way. (He has 3 of the 4 right now.)

If every car brand loyalty group had a party, BMW, Mercedes and Audi groups for example would be huge parties with everyone chugging 90-year-old Scotch while the Kia party would be those 4 people in their parents' basement drinking wine coolers and playing Uno.

I love the Genesis, Cadenza, K900 and Equus though. Don't tell my dad. Shh.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Brian Silvestro 02/04/2014 at 13:19

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A 368 horsepower 4.6 litre V8!

Brian Silvestro > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 13:22

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Oh shit you're gonna have a lot of fun! Bring it to ALL the autocross/rallycross/track days. Show people what's up.

Justino6969 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 13:25

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Could they? Probably. Will I buy one? No, and for one reason. My girlfriend's parents recently bought an Optima EX for around $24,000, and it is easily the most luxurious vehicle I have ever been in. It's quiet, smooth, comfortable, good looking, and has more features than I have ever seen on a car. It even has a heated steering wheel! In a sub-$25,000 car! The only other 'luxury' feature that I can think of that they could put on a car that I would like, is those headlights that follow the road. Other than that, their optima has everything I can imagine. (A few weeks ago, her uncle leased a new Jag XF for his wife. The Kia is more loaded than the Jag.)

Jayhawk Jake > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 02/04/2014 at 13:26

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Most people won't buy these.

They'll lease them, probably as a company car. All Kia needs to do is show people how much car the K900 is for the same lease payments as the competition.

It's going to be tough, but the K900 looks to be a seriously nice car. In the very least it should hopefully improve the perception of the brand as a whole and start getting people to give Kia the respect it deserves.

Jayhawk Jake > Stupidru 02/04/2014 at 13:28

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Fine, leave the good cars to those of is who aren't ignorant.

Jayhawk Jake > Stupidru 02/04/2014 at 13:28

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Fine, leave the good cars to those of is who aren't ignorant.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Jayhawk Jake 02/04/2014 at 13:32

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I spent a lot of time around them at the auto show... they were insanley nice.. So much legroom and loaded with goodies.

Stupidru > Jayhawk Jake 02/04/2014 at 13:35

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I never really got into that concept. It just... looks goofy to me

BJ > Justino6969 02/04/2014 at 13:45

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You're talking features, not necessarily luxury. This is a great example of feature stuffing that lower marques use to sell cars - put everything you can in it to get people interested. All the bells and whistles, the little gadgets and doodads, whatever you can make fit in the price. This will attract people and sell cars much more easily, 'cause we like toys.

Luxury goes one step further - the materials you touch are softer, the ride quality is even better, external noises are well subdued, overall build quality (fit and finish) is higher. But luxury is sometimes harder to quantify and therefore, harder to sell.

I'm not doubting that the Kia is a nice car - I'm sure it's a good machine. But I'll bet that the Jaguar provides a better overall experience, even if it doesn't have as many toys.

Justino6969 > BJ 02/04/2014 at 15:33

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I've ridden in and driven both. The Kia is nicer. I didn't specify this, but the fit and finish are amazing and the materials are on par with the Jag. Before her dad told me the price, I figured it was a good $40k car. I was supremely surprised. It's an amazing machine for the money, and very high quality. Brand recognition is stuck in too many people's heads.